Last week we ran a post on the people who we thought were rock ‘n’ roll’s most underrated lyricists — artists who don’t get the credit they deserve for their writing, either because they’re better known as guitarists/producers/crazy performers, or just because they’re generally underappreciated. We got some great feedback, and some excellent suggestions in the comments section, and all was very congenial. But last week’s post does raise one obvious question: If those were rock ‘n’ roll’s most underrated lyricists, who are its most overrated? We’ve taken the plunge and put together a list of the latter. Again, to be clear, this isn’t meant to be any sort of definitive list of worst lyrics or lyricists — Des’ree, your throne is secure — just those who we reckon don’t get enough scrutiny for being either a) not that great or b) not quite as great as people seem to think they are. So, what say you, readers? Are there more names you’d like to nominate? Or do we just need to join the witness protection program?
Lou Reed
Now, look, don’t get us wrong here. We are huge Lou Reed fans (even after he lived up to his reputation by being thoroughly unpleasant to us during an interview last year), and no one is denying that he has written some of the best rock ‘n’ roll lyrics ever — any single choice from the likes of “Heroin,” “Street Hassle,” “Candy Says,” or even “Coney Island Baby” would be enough to guarantee a place in the Rock ‘n’ Roll Lyricists’ Hall of Fame, if such a thing existed. But it does seem like he loses interest at times — whether it’s comically bad clangers like “Just like poison in a vial/ Hey, she was often very vile” (from “Caroline Says II”) or generally lackluster songs like “My Red Joystick,” Reed has been responsible for a surprising number of pretty awful lyrics. When he’s on form, he’s up with the very, very best. But we think he’s dropped enough stinkers over the years to not entirely merit his reputation as a consistently great lyricist.
Comments (82)
“Her stories are boring and stuff” is the single greatest lyric in ALL OF ROCK HISTORY, TOM HAWKING.
You are damn kids and that you need to study the history of music and all such things.
Jeff Mangum
This is a really petty post. Although I agree about Chris Martin, you could take any great lyricist and find enough silliness to add them to a list like this. Theres just way too much space to fill on the internet.
OK, let me try to defend that particular, and much maligned, Dylan lyric (it seems like a favorite example of people who want to diss Dylan’s lyricism). That song is (clearly) a rebuttal to his critics from both mainstream positions and from the folk scene who lamented that his songs didn’t make sense anymore – that they either didn’t have a message or were too obscure. More broadly, it can also read as caricature of the way many people viewed the changes that were occurring socially in the US and the world at that moment. The lyrics become increasingly absurd in order to capture the hallucinatory absurdness that people who “knew something was happening but didn’t know what it was” felt in relation to such changes.
Conor Oberst is an amazing lyricist, as is Bob Dylan. I understand that there are plenty of other writers who deserve more attention than they get, but that doesnt mean that great songwriters who happen to be popular are “overrated”. Its a little unfair when great music is dismissed as overrated, just because it happened to get recognition.
did you ever think that the dylan piece was meant to be funny (which it is) ? it looks like youre the mr jones the song was talking about and i guess the joke is still on you after all these years, dumb guys looking for a “deep meaning” in everything you see the 1 eyed midget and youre still asking “how” and “for what reason?” there is no reason its just an amusing image. nice to know mr jones is still alive and well with his pedantry tho. also nobody thought half these guys were good lyricists in the first place (bernard sumner has always had a bad rep in particular) so this will be going on my 10 most pointless lists of all time list. howzat ?
also the lou reed bashing in anticipation of the bashing hes going to get along with metallica soon was a pretty obvious touch. getting yer blows in early i see
DYLAN?! really? If you knew anything about his life, his songs, his art, his imagery, OR the assholes that were scrutinizing his work all the time, you would understand what the song and lyrics are all about.
Obviously not everyone is a Dylan fan, but to call him overrated??! you need to get a new profession.
@yes you are an idiot – it’s funny? Oh, my mistake.
I guess Dylan has to be on there to cause controversy and maybe some conversation. It worked, a few people will have visited the site for the first and definitely last time.
I think those lyrics from “Ballad of a Thin Man” are brilliant. It was written at the height of his fame, having made the transition from folk to electric, with some fans ditching him, some thinking they owned him, the press praising him one minute and ridiculing him the next. Dylan was feeling pulled apart by the public, a public with no imagination and very limited vision; to them he’s just this commodity, the milk-cow who’s supposed to just churn out the songs they want to hear — and Dylan is saying, to quote Joe Pesci, “You think I’m a clown?”
(For some visual insight on the song, check out this clip from the Todd Haynes’ film, “I’m Not There.” (http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/HotOqlDn_vU/)
Having said that, yes, yes, of COURSE he has bad days. Anyone who writes hundreds of great songs is going to have a few losers.
There’s that truly embarrassing line in “Joey,” which idolizes the mobster Joey Gallo:
It was true that in his later years he would not carry a gun
“I’m around too many children”, he’d say, “they should never know of one”
(He wasn’t just a heartless killer! He loved the children!)
Another tribute song, “Lenny Bruce,” praised he late comedian with this rather damning bit of faint praise:
Never robbed any churches nor cut off any babies’ heads
He just took the folks in high places and he shined a light in their beds
(Never decapitated children — boy, how many comedians can you say THAT about?)
And, for a man who has written many a tender love song, we get this rather creaky sentiment in “Is Your Love in Vain?”
Can you cook and sew, make flowers grow
Do you understand my pain?
So, sure he can suck. So can Lou Reed. But, in the end, so what?
Their failures aren’t that interesting. That’s why they’re failures.
I don’t like your lists as much when they focus on the negative.
I think those lyrics from “Ballad of a Thin Man” are brilliant. It was written at the height of his fame, having made the transition from folk to electric, with some fans ditching him, some thinking they owned him, the press praising him one minute and ridiculing him the next. Dylan was feeling pulled apart by the public, a public with no imagination and very limited vision; to them he’s just this commodity, the milk-cow who’s supposed to just churn out the songs they want to hear — and Dylan is saying, to quote Joe Pesci, “You think I’m a clown?”
Having said that, yes, yes, of COURSE he has bad days. Anyone who writes hundreds of great songs is going to have a few losers.
There’s that truly embarrassing line in “Joey,” which idolizes the mobster Joey Gallo:
It was true that in his later years he would not carry a gun
“I’m around too many children”, he’d say, “they should never know of one”
(He wasn’t just a heartless killer! He loved the children!)
Another tribute song, “Lenny Bruce,” praised he late comedian with this rather damning bit of faint praise:
Never robbed any churches nor cut off any babies’ heads
He just took the folks in high places and he shined a light in their beds
(Never decapitated children — boy, how many comedians can you say THAT about?)
And, for a man who has written many a tender love song, we get this rather creaky sentiment in “Is Your Love in Vain?”
Can you cook and sew, make flowers grow
Do you understand my pain?
So, sure he can suck. So can Lou Reed. But, in the end, so what?
Their failures aren’t that interesting. That’s why they’re failures.
I don’t like your lists as much when they focus on the negative.
Starting on Reed, I thought “oh, he must be getting the controversial decision out of the way”. Then, every fucking thing else! I agree with you on Oberst and Martin and somewhat on Plant. On every other count, you are wrong, wrong, wrong! It’s funny that this was the website that decried anti-hipster tendencies as neo-anti-intellectualism. I guess it’s a lot of fun to consider yourself an intellectual. After all, look at your underrated list. The Shins are shit!
This article should be renamed:
“10 Amazing Lyricists who once wrote songs I didn’t like or didn’t understand.”
Tom Hawking is one of the most overrrated idiots on the web and the fact that nobody even knows who this wanker is or about this rubbish site is speaking mountains of words for the sheer idiocy of anyone that would link to such rubbish. To hell with you muck monger.
You can always find a way to read into lyrics and I agree with your list
Bookended with Reed & Dylan… are you just looking for attention, Mr. Hawking?
If you’re putting Dylan in there how about Lennon/ McCartney? (Who lets face it have each only had one great song post Beatles: Imagine and Live and Let Die respectively) Or Jagger/ Richards who have been riding on the same songs for 30 years now. If Dylan is overrated its because we are the ones putting him on this pedistal, not just through Mojo or Rollingstone but through every post 60′s songwriter listing him as one of their greatest influences and his nomination for a Nobel Prize! The fact that songs he’s written in the last 10 years continue to be covered by artists as diverse as Adele and Jack White show that today’s performers hardly see his work as being over rated!
Completely garbage article. Each artist is simply judged by one or two lines in one or two songs completely taken out of context. Do you also think Babe Ruth was an overrated hitter because he struck out in a game against the Orioles in early 1918?
I feel strongly about “Ballad of a Thin Man”. It has always been a favorite of mine and love the dazed effect I can have when listening to it. Recently, I heard the poet laureate of rock and roll (as is announced at the beginning of his concert) perform this song. It was intense an blistering experience and if you have ever heard it live I don’t believe you would consider it for this list. Not that Bob Dylan should ever be on such a list. That being said, I agreed with just about every other pick!
What’s funny is that the context of the Dylan lyric has been explained here, but Hawking still doesn’t seem to get it. Instead, he resorts to empty defensive rhetorics. Face it: you just don’t have what it takes to write this kind of criticism.
I have often wondered if Coldplay’s song “Yellow” is about jaundice.
If you think that Dylan lyric you just posted is bad, then yes – you are damn kids and you need to study the history of music and all such things. Nobody can touch Dylan’s body of songwriting work. ^^^ what Justin said.
Also, Frank Zappa only wrote lyrics because “he had to”. And so you love Zappa, his huskies, and his yellow snow, but you don’t like Dylan’s cow.
Though I’m sure Bob himself would agree that he has been overrated. Why else would he have released Self-Portrait? He deliberately tried to be less popular at different points in his career. Doesn’t change the fact that he is the Shakespeare of our time. Even Shakespeare writes a “Wiggle Wiggle” once a while.
…Something is happening here, and you don’t know what it is…
…Do you?…Mr.Jones?
That’s my favorite part of the song! the imagery is surreal – the whole picture that song paints fantastic.
Appalling flavorwire!! ;)
Are you trying to convince me that Dylan is overrated as a lyricist? Might your next piece tell me that Babe Ruth was a shitty baseball player? Some perspective, please.
[...] In the wake of his collaboration with Metallica, Lulu, veteran rocker Lou Reed has been named the most overrated lyricist in rock by cultural website Flavorwire. [...]
So, the point of the pair of these “articles” about under and over-rated lyricists is: this group of people who aren’t known for their lyrics (or not known at all) are actually great, while these writers whom YOU think are great are really not. Such a big steaming pile of obscuremanship… Really, it seems your only objective is to try to ruffle feathers and get hits, blogger. Don’t ever deceive yourself that you’re an actual journalist, discovering something new by shining light on previously unseen truths, but rather just a kid poking at the adults to get attention.
Really, the Sundays?? I start to fall asleep within 30 seconds ANY of their songs. Music involves both lyrics AND “melody” woven together. The difficulty is doing so artfully, so that they combine to more than the sum of their parts. So, ultimately, your articles are the waste material that comes from splitting other people’s groundbreaking work into its constituent parts.
You gain perspective through putting it in context Tom.
Remember: Having a website and an opinion doesn’t make your opinion any more valid.
Bob Dylan? Robert Plant? Get off your high horse. It annoys me that you critique Zeppelin’s lyrics for their style, not their content. To be sure, Plant wrote some atrocious songs after Zeppelin, but I think that much of their early work embodies excellent songwriting, regardless if you think Tolkien references are weird. It’s Rock n Roll, man. Furthermore, I see their “faux-bluesman-schtick” as giving tribute to the bluesman who were their inspiration, not as some knock-off caricature as you would have us believe.
Haha! Commenters make me laugh. Tom I think if you threw a group of infants in a basement and gutted them for shits and giggles you’d get less venom than what these pseudo hipster music fans are vomiting because what THEY think is cool or worthy. Must be awful to have an opinion and have the blog tactic morons out there want to lynch something because their opinion differs some what. Some of Reed is awesome and some of Reed is crap. Anyone care to meet me in person to lynch me for my opinion- OPINION being the operative word. If only these trash writing commenters could get their heads out of their Asses and be as passionate about something constructive. Too much to ask I guess,. “I’m pissed because the website that I read that is free and that I am in no way obligated to read is having an opinion that is different than mine!” oh dear oh dear.
Is there a reason why Jim Morrison isn’t every entry in the top 10 overrated lyricists?
aside from being completely wrong, this is a direct ripoff from NME. or vice versa. way to go flavorwire. dear mr. hawking: you’ve become just about as smarmy & irrelevant as that piece of anglo trash.
re-purposed NME drivel.
Hey, Flavorpill Editors: You need to have someone who knows something about classic rock and poetry and the world if you want to rate rock and roll lyricists. This is idiotic, and far below the editorial standards you usually uphold.
Boy, at the rate you are going with this article, you can take any great line out of any great song by any great artist and ruin it… I actually like most of those lyrics within the context of the songs. And Dylan? really? That line is brilliant! It kills me… Get a sense of cutlure, history, and humor.
To be over-rated you must first be rated. Most of your list are bands that most real music lovers have never given a moments notice of their lyrics… what a weird list. I think a good case can be made for the Doors and Led Zeppelin in the lyric department… and though I think Connor Oberst is not my cup of tea, I think his talents include a very well expressive personal voice. But the Muse?! Coldplay? Interpol? Not even considered good enough to be over-trated. Also, to include Lou Reed and Bob Dylan on the list shows you are either 15 years old or your heads are firmly up your own butts.
I don’t even know who System of A Down is, but you don’t have to be a liberal leftist to enjoy or be a critic of music. Your snide crack at those to the right is not necessary. We all have ears and a brain. Shouldn’t you be sitting in the middle if you’re to be taken seriously as a judge of anything?
Seriously? I’d like to just point out that you picked one of Muse’s oldest songs as an example. Yes, I’ll admit that some of their lyrics are utter tripe (see: Neutron Star Collision, Sober, etc.) but then you listen to other songs by the exact same band with the exact same lyricist and think, “Jesus Christ, this man is a genius.” Con-Science, Invincible, Knights of Cydonia, Stockholm Syndrome, and of course Exogenesis I, II and III, to name but a few. Just think about it for a second, please.
The Dylan lyrics you quote are quite funny, which was the point. You can’t say: “Don’t attack me!” and then post something stupid like this.
Always hated Dylan. Always will. How can anybody listen to that horrible nasal drone?
a throw-away piece. of course Dylan or Reed slip up once in a while. So did Wilde or Whitman. And, really, you could randomly pick ANY recent band and pull out some abysmal lyrics, worse than Dylan’s flubs… but it’s more fun to attack the icons. Whatever.
I was afraid you were going to put Bernie Taupin in there. You didn’t and I thank you.
Too busy cancelling my subscription to tell you what buffoons you are for including Dylan on this list. Think he’s overrated?! Listen to ‘Visions of Johanna’.
I agree with the consensus that a bad couplet here and there does not an overrated lyricist make. You should’ve just done top 10 worst lyricists which I think Anthony Kiedis would top.
While I enjoy listening to some of these artists – I COMPLETELY agree with your criticism. Why are these gooby commentators so hot in the collar? Critique is a part of being an artist you numbnuts. Settle down already. If you don’t like to hear other people’s opinions – don’t F’ing read them. Simple as that.
This article is just another Flavorpill rush deadline piece of tripe. They slap together articles like Men’s Health Magazine slaps together statistics. A fun read on occasion, and some of articles about books/music to look out for are informative, but overall you are talking about the Yelpers of pop culture. With so much room to fill on the internet as Chris so aptly mentioned above, critical opinions and the power to fling them around, are nearly meaningless in an arena where some of the most studied music critics and theorists, are considered in the same realm as some blogging alt dot jokers.
Whoa. Dylan!?! Have you lost your mind? There is a reason the man is known as the greatest songwriter of his generation. He’s better than you or I will ever be. Pointing out a few bad lines with a guy whose discography spans decades is like pointing out the imperfections of the Sistine Chapel. Seriously, forget studying up on history, just listen to hard rain and be quiet.
I’m not a damn kid, 50+ in fact and I totally agree with you. I love all that ‘old’ music, but always felt Dylan was over rated! Glad someone else finally said it.
every writer has his or her bad days. this is one of yours.
ugh I knew you’d put Jim Morrison on this list. He gets so much sh*t because he’s an easy target, give the poor man a break!
Absolute rubbish list!! I mean C’MON, Dylan, Morrison, Plant, etc – ALL GREAT lyricists. Like someone else noted, these are great artists that maybe had a clunker here or there. Highly overrated, I think not. Understood by the feeble-minded “critics”, definitely!
It’s apparent that the list is meant as a plea for attention for their pathetic site. Frankly, they need to pull their collective heads out.
Okay Tom, I’ll give you that Morrison and Plant are probably overrated based on how untouchably revered they are, but you can’t put them on a list of overrated lyricists, along with the likes of Dylan and Reed, and then not include Eddie Veder, perhaps the most overrated, self-important, blowhard hack of a songwriter to walk the face of the earth. Or Bono. I would throw in Sting too but I think most people would admit his lyrics are a joke.
Oooh look how controversial this list has been. Not that anyone cares about my opinion, but, when you take lyrics out of context like that, you can make anything sound pretty stupid. And Paul Banks and Conor Oberst aren’t overrated. 85% of the human race has never heard of them. They’d have to be rated popularly first before they can become overrated. But I do agree that people put Dylan on a pedestal.
Tom hawking.., simply put ur a dumbass… Wtf are you talking about… I think it’s funny u didn’t put jlo berber kperry and most important the no. 1 should go to fuckin Anthony kletis or what ever from the peppers…
Next ur gonna write about how you forgot to mention waters.. Lennon … McCarthy.,. Hendrix … Joplin…
you guys are so fucking lame with all these best/worst/dumb/dumber top ten lists. who really considers anyone on your list “great lyricists”. please. great musicians, maybe. some of them. but seriously do you just pull this shit out of your ass, or get your high school interns to do it for you?
ok, i except dylan from my previous comment. he has been taken seriously as a lyricist because of the folk tradition he comes out of, but still.
ok, dylan excepted from my previous comment. he has been taken seriously because of the folk tradition he comes out of, but still
If I were to make a list of overrated writers, would it be fair to list the author of this article solely because of the line, “So, what say you, readers?” I would grant him the poetic license and not do so, as the comments have been his poetic justice. But then again, if his purpose was simply to raise controversy like most media channels, then I take it all back.
Jesus people, lighten the fuck up. I love pretty much everyone on the list, but it’s fun to take the piss. 90% of you are humorless fucking assholes. Tom, enjoyed it and thought it was spot on.
I read somewhere that New Order would all write the lyrics together, sitting around a table and each one would write down a line. Which explains some or most of their daft lyrics.
christ, you commenters are really, REALLY afraid of someone having a different opinion to you, aren’t you?
What a terrible list. Where is Woody Guthrie. He is so overrated. Just like Hank Williams. And Bruce Springsteen. And Towns Van Zandt. And John Lennon. Because if anybody calls a songwriter great, or even gives them positive feedback, it means that they are overrated. Especially those idiots that hand out the Nobel Prize for Literature. Those retards don’t know a damn thing about writing.
some people have woken up on the wrong side of the bed for a few years, judging by some of the comments here. the ‘waah waah you said something mean about my favourite band and now i’m going to cry in the corner and hate you forever’ comments are so silly.
this list is simply UTTER BULLSHIT
what kind of a cunt says matthew bellamy is a bad lyricist? Yah go ahead and judge their EARLIEST work. hmm very pro guys very fucking pro.
lol I don’t care cus doesn’t change what i like, the question is who are the most underrated lyricists of all time, who is america passing over due to so obsession with whats popular ( for that I say Harvey Danger). also some times lyricists just go with the music and you really only hear that line that you need.
[...] okazji, Lou Reed został właśnie ogłoszony przez kulturalną witrynę Flavorwire najbardziej przereklamowanym tekściarzem. Witryna podkreśla, że choć niegdyś był autorem słów, za li tylko które już możnaby go [...]
Tankian’s (System of a down) lyrics are miraculous period.
Bernard Sumner as a lyricist is overrated? These people on this site must not know what overrated means. To be overrated, you have to be ‘rated’ by some people in the first place. Very few people (hardly anyone), would consider Bernard Sumner a good lyricist in the first place (mind you, I like his lyrics, but I do not think he is a good lyricist; even he has admitted that he’s not a good lyricist). If New Order fans as well as casual listeners do not consider him to be a good lyricist, he does NOT deserve to be listed as an ‘overrated’ lyricist. Epic failure of a list IMO.
[...] such time that anyone tells us we shouldn’t. If you’re a fan and you want to hear what in-no-way-even-slightly-overrated-lyricist Chris Martin and the rest of the band have been up to over the last year or so, all the answers [...]
Wow, look at how many comments this post generated! Clearly Mr. Hawking has done his job. And by the way I noticed that someone said The Shins are shit… and on The Shins’ behalf I’d like to say that… I love The Shins and JRM’s lyrics.
Lou Reed HAS written some of the best lyrics in rock music, of course if you have a career that spans about 5 to 6 decades it’s normal to not be a genius ALL the fucking time. The value of an artist must ALWAYS be compared to his best work he produced, not to the shit he delivers from time to time
[...] Read as Flavorwire considers 10 of rock’s most overrated lyricists. [...]
yes tom it was meant to be amusing as an absurd image in the context of the song which get more and more ridiculous as it goes on . the irony being the mr jones’ being referred to is pedants such as yourself who were lookig for deeeep meanings in dylans work all the time. i think most of the people here have already explained it enough for even you to understand so the only thing left to say is
something is happening here but you dont know what it is, do you mr hawking?
[...] nasz kanał RSS, aby zawsze być na bieżąco!Jeden z zagranicznych serwisów internetowych – Flavorwire.com 0głosił wyniki swojego rankingu na najbardziej przereklamowanych tekściarzy muzycznych. Pierwsze [...]
WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH BOB DYLAN WAHHH WAH WAH WAH WAH. DYLAN WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH TOM HAWKING WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH NO IDEA ABOUT WRITING WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH BOB DYLAN WAH.
Paul Banks really? Go listen to “Leif Erickson”, “A time to be so small”, “Specialist”, “Rest my Chemistry”, “The Lighthouse”, “The New” and “Pace is the trick”
Everybody, listen to me,
And return me, my ship.
I’m your captain, I’m your captain,
Though I’m feeling mighty sick.
[...] Se você segue furioso e injustiçado, leia as explicações das escolhas aqui. [...]
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